all boxed up
long entry ahead...
"so, if your husband asked you to stop working, you wouldn't?"
"i don't think i can do that. i've always said i needed to work and that if my fiance was the type to ask me that i'd have my doubts. i find part of my self-worth in my work, and leaving me without something to do makes me feel useless. i will always feel like there is something more to do. i will always feel like i can produce something substantial. my self-worth will be attached to how well i can serve my family, and i don't think i can uphold and love my family if i myself don't value me. i know my family is important, but i don't think work and family cannot co-exist. it's not an either/or choice. i think you can work and uphold your family. and, i don't necessarily think that choosing to work instead of staying home renders the family less important."
"i know and i understand. but your self-worth is based not on your work, but simply because God loves you."
"okayy...what if it were the other way around? would you stop working if your wife asked you to? what do you think of husbands who decide to stay home instead?"
"no that's not ok. i think those husbands don't fulfill their primary duty."
"primary duty?"
"yes. the primary duty of the man is to provide for the family, to take care of them that way. because they are men, because nature has dictated it so, because it has been since time began, such that cultures so disconnected have come up with the same system of roles that men and women have to fulfill...because nature has ordained them to be so. roles are there for order to exist. without these roles, it'll be chaotic. men were made to provide for their family. women were made to nurture."
"so...a woman's primary duty is to take care of the family by staying home by virtue of the fact that she is a woman?? can't a woman both work and nurture her family at the same time?"
"well...yes, to a certain extent."
"why?"
"because there are some things that women do so well, that there are some things that men can't do. men aren't as nurturing, or as loving. mothers play huge roles in the family. they are indespensable in the life of a child. from the very first psychologist, the have always said that the mother is so important because of the special love and care that she can give. a man cannot do those things."
"why are you boxing people up in such roles?"
"because nature said so. because God says so. because scientific studies have said so."
"i'm not gonna argue with you about God and the bible. but, i have to say, i am not going to let scientific studies dictate who i am, who i have to become, what roles i have to fill, and what my duties are in life."
"studies show that women now are feeling more unhappy because they are forced to stay out of the house."
"i was not part of that study. i am not unhappy because i am forced to stay out of the house."
"why are you the exception to the rule?"
"why?! because who's to say that i am supposed to feel a certain way or do a certain thing by virtue of the fact that i have boobs?! why are you dictating what and who people should be because of their gender?"
"because that's the way it's supposed to be."
"that doesn't mean it has to stay that way. agreed, roles give order. roles assure that things get done. but it doesn't mean that roles have to be assigned. switching the roles around won't be chaotic, i think. the only reason why you think it will be because society has ordered us to think that way. i believe the primary duty to take care of the family sits on BOTH the husband and the wife. it doesn't matter who does what."
"i agree it sits both on the husband and the wife too. but the husband does it by providing, and the wife does it by taking care of the family. not necessarily staying home, but by taking care of the family. in fact, work for the woman might be necessary for her to take care of the family. but her primary duty should still be to her children and husband. why do you think being a housewife is so degrading? women now are being taught to think that way."
"i don't think being a housewife is degrading.. i just don't think it's for me. and i don't think it has to be what the woman does. i don't think that there should be anything that limits her decision to choose between being part of the work force and being at home. if she wants to work, fine. if she wants to stay at home, fine. but i still think it's about choice. it shouldn't be about "what nature intended." so, if the woman wants to work and the husband wants to stay home, even if both roles are filled, it's not ok?"
"no, because i don't think the husband is fulfilling his role in the family."
"why are you constricting men and women?"
"i'm not constricting. in fact, i'm freeing them. society has taught women to look down on their primary duty. what i'm doing is upholding the same because that's how nature ordained us. roles are constricting - it grounds us to what we're supposed to be doing."
"i don't see how that's not constricting. why don't we just go back to the 1920's then?"
"i'm not saying the right to vote and all that is bad. it's like telling a baby to drink milk. and the baby complains because you're just giving him milk and not, say, nails or something."
"nails?!? that's a wrong analogy. that means that a woman filling up a man's role is bad for her, and vice versa. doing something else other than "what you're ordained to do" is not poisonous or harmful! why are you so bent on upholding these roles just because of gender???"
"because God says so!"
"...i just said...i'm not gonna argue with you on that..."
"...is this because your dad left you?"
sigh..
"so, if your husband asked you to stop working, you wouldn't?"
"i don't think i can do that. i've always said i needed to work and that if my fiance was the type to ask me that i'd have my doubts. i find part of my self-worth in my work, and leaving me without something to do makes me feel useless. i will always feel like there is something more to do. i will always feel like i can produce something substantial. my self-worth will be attached to how well i can serve my family, and i don't think i can uphold and love my family if i myself don't value me. i know my family is important, but i don't think work and family cannot co-exist. it's not an either/or choice. i think you can work and uphold your family. and, i don't necessarily think that choosing to work instead of staying home renders the family less important."
"i know and i understand. but your self-worth is based not on your work, but simply because God loves you."
"okayy...what if it were the other way around? would you stop working if your wife asked you to? what do you think of husbands who decide to stay home instead?"
"no that's not ok. i think those husbands don't fulfill their primary duty."
"primary duty?"
"yes. the primary duty of the man is to provide for the family, to take care of them that way. because they are men, because nature has dictated it so, because it has been since time began, such that cultures so disconnected have come up with the same system of roles that men and women have to fulfill...because nature has ordained them to be so. roles are there for order to exist. without these roles, it'll be chaotic. men were made to provide for their family. women were made to nurture."
"so...a woman's primary duty is to take care of the family by staying home by virtue of the fact that she is a woman?? can't a woman both work and nurture her family at the same time?"
"well...yes, to a certain extent."
"why?"
"because there are some things that women do so well, that there are some things that men can't do. men aren't as nurturing, or as loving. mothers play huge roles in the family. they are indespensable in the life of a child. from the very first psychologist, the have always said that the mother is so important because of the special love and care that she can give. a man cannot do those things."
"why are you boxing people up in such roles?"
"because nature said so. because God says so. because scientific studies have said so."
"i'm not gonna argue with you about God and the bible. but, i have to say, i am not going to let scientific studies dictate who i am, who i have to become, what roles i have to fill, and what my duties are in life."
"studies show that women now are feeling more unhappy because they are forced to stay out of the house."
"i was not part of that study. i am not unhappy because i am forced to stay out of the house."
"why are you the exception to the rule?"
"why?! because who's to say that i am supposed to feel a certain way or do a certain thing by virtue of the fact that i have boobs?! why are you dictating what and who people should be because of their gender?"
"because that's the way it's supposed to be."
"that doesn't mean it has to stay that way. agreed, roles give order. roles assure that things get done. but it doesn't mean that roles have to be assigned. switching the roles around won't be chaotic, i think. the only reason why you think it will be because society has ordered us to think that way. i believe the primary duty to take care of the family sits on BOTH the husband and the wife. it doesn't matter who does what."
"i agree it sits both on the husband and the wife too. but the husband does it by providing, and the wife does it by taking care of the family. not necessarily staying home, but by taking care of the family. in fact, work for the woman might be necessary for her to take care of the family. but her primary duty should still be to her children and husband. why do you think being a housewife is so degrading? women now are being taught to think that way."
"i don't think being a housewife is degrading.. i just don't think it's for me. and i don't think it has to be what the woman does. i don't think that there should be anything that limits her decision to choose between being part of the work force and being at home. if she wants to work, fine. if she wants to stay at home, fine. but i still think it's about choice. it shouldn't be about "what nature intended." so, if the woman wants to work and the husband wants to stay home, even if both roles are filled, it's not ok?"
"no, because i don't think the husband is fulfilling his role in the family."
"why are you constricting men and women?"
"i'm not constricting. in fact, i'm freeing them. society has taught women to look down on their primary duty. what i'm doing is upholding the same because that's how nature ordained us. roles are constricting - it grounds us to what we're supposed to be doing."
"i don't see how that's not constricting. why don't we just go back to the 1920's then?"
"i'm not saying the right to vote and all that is bad. it's like telling a baby to drink milk. and the baby complains because you're just giving him milk and not, say, nails or something."
"nails?!? that's a wrong analogy. that means that a woman filling up a man's role is bad for her, and vice versa. doing something else other than "what you're ordained to do" is not poisonous or harmful! why are you so bent on upholding these roles just because of gender???"
"because God says so!"
"...i just said...i'm not gonna argue with you on that..."
"...is this because your dad left you?"
sigh..
posted by chin at 8:55 PM
9 Comments:
ANO BA!!!!!!!!!! =0 Psychotic!
HOLY CRAP.
Misogynist pig pala si gago!
Hmm... I wanted to make a rebuttal for everything Mr. King of Balls said..and each line ended with you fucking psycho!
Sorry to muck up your very elegant blog, Chin.
MY GAD!
that's all i can say talaga...
SHET!
well.. i stopped talking to him after that... and he apologized naman and said that "maybe you misconstrued me bla bla... i'm not degrading men or women for that matter...it's just that these roles were there for a reason...thats the only way he knows things will work in the family..."
i still said i was so surprised and amazed that someone from our generation could be so confined, and how he could allow and agree that things should remain delineated like that.
well, said he, he's not saying women should stay home and they shouldn't be allowed to work or that they should never work or that women who work are bad mothers and that women who don't work are necessarily good mothers. he's just saying that women are naturally better in nurturing than men...and that the only thing that he was exposed to in his family is that the way that a marriage can work is when these roles are fulfilled. if not, spome studies show naman that the women feel cheated or something like that.
at this point i really wasn't saying anything anymore.
and he continued by saying that he doesn't mean to degrade, as he doesn't think roles are degrading in any way. in fact they should be honored, because that was what makes family (and thus, society) work and be less dysfunctional. hewas jealous daw before of women's relationships with their children because they were so close and all that, and he always wanted to have that kind of relationship with his kids.
and i said, well, i'm sure you still can. it doesn't mean that just cos you're a father you're relationship with your kids is instantly limited to how you are "made" to relate.
and he said something else...but, well, i kind of zoned out after that.
i am so so so surprised. and flabbergasted.
he apologized for including my dad, by the way. he didn't mean daw that my points of view in life boiled down to the fact that my dad left. he meant lang daw that maybe the husband leaving the home (say, for example, as an OFW) might be a sensitive subject for me seeing as how my dad lives in another country.
or something like that.
anyway...we shall be pushing that conversation out of our heads lest we are pushed to regress women's development and society's new found flexibility....
one midterm down, 6 to go. =)
chin, i think he was sent from heaven above to help you review...imagine! he gave ur arguing skills a work out..hahahha...
well, im glad he's giving you more reasons to trust your instincts.
kitakits after your midterms!!! hey long weekend coming up..no office monday...lets get togetehr saturday! pool party?!!
Huwatt??!
Kala ko ba he's cancelled na?? Tama na. This conversation should have gone something like this:
"so, if your husband asked you to stop working, you wouldn't?"
"F**k this sh*t. Go to hell."
--End of conversation--
DEATH.
Wow, I was blown away by your blog Chin and the fact this bloke is such a wanker -- insert Aussie accent here please--, but now I'm just impressed with Gin's comment!!! Keep up the good work Gin Gin!
jaime: hahahahaha yea i know, i wish i actually did that to save myself of all the trouble.
go gin. you should've been there when we spoke. =)
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